Serene Williams: Can you tell us a little about yourself and your involvement with the National Organization for Women?

Lee Perkins: I am an ordinary citizen, not a professional or teacher. I became interested in women’s history when I realized what we were doing as activists was making history and that our actions, documents and artifacts were not receiving recognition from outside the women’s movement. And that work was therefore likely to fade away before we did. There was so much information out there, even before Facebook, and not too much about earlier women’s activism that was going to fade away as well. 

At the time, I was not aware that there was a field of Women’s Studies, and probably would have dismissed it as too ivory tower anyway. The language of scholars appeared to have no relation to our day to day lives. So I wanted to collect evidence of what was happening to us–the flyers and newsletters in particular, usually the stuff that gets thrown away.

That’s what started my collecting. I thought if we, the activists, were documenting our own history that would fight misinformation. I did a lot of clipping and amassed a lot of scrapbooks. That was before I was able to digitize everything and download news stories. So I had quite a bit of a collection. Some of my stuff, if you go through the folders I sent you, you’ll see some empty ones. I had a couple of boxes of news clippings and newsletters that got damaged when a pipe broke in my storage locker and they all got full of fungus so that had to be destroyed. I didn’t dare touch it. 

Williams: That’s so interesting. I love what you said about how flyers and materials from the women’s movement often get thrown away and it is important to document them. That’s what we are trying to do with this project. That’s so well said. 

Perkins: There is a folder in the collection of digitized materials I sent you that says either wet or Washington Equal Times which is a joint newsletter that was put out by five D.C. area NOW chapters for five years. It was mimeographed and I was able to scan it just in time before those mimeographed pages dissolved.

Williams: That’s amazing. I’d love to hear any stories of lesser known women, or feminist activists, that you think we should document.

Perkins: I sent you information about Mary Hartzler

Williams: Yes, I was reading those documents you sent me yesterday. Incredible stories!

Perkins: She was one of those people that was involved in everything from civic affairs to court watch, helping people who were victims of violence. To a lot of people who knew here, she was a civically aware housewife, but she was much more than that. She travelled to many cities throughout the state, she frequently traveled to Richmond to testify about things. She published commentary and wrote letters to the editor. She also talked to people in community meetings. That’s the kind of stuff that doesn’t get documented into the official sources. 

Williams: So true. I added her to our course proposal last night after you taught me about the work she did. I was grateful to connect with you through Zoe Nicholson and her Facebook page. How do you know Zoe?

Perkins: I met her once and know her through her writings. Even though I had a Facebook account since it started, I never used it until last year. That’s how I discovered you and I’m very glad to make contact with you.

Williams: I am so grateful to connect with you and appreciate all the incredible resources you sent me that we can include in the textbook I am writing for the WAPUSH course. I am working on a public facing textbook to make it easier for teachers to offer a course like this or even just use sections or units for their own history classes. So I really appreciate the materials you sent me since adding them will make it a lot more compelling for teachers and students. We will put these materials to good use, I promise.

I’d also like to ask you why you think it is important to support the creation of an AP Women’s History course? 

Perkins: It is related to the idea of debunking. If kids in high school learn women’s history, that will help them. It will give them an introduction to serious investigations. I often tell people they should get interested in genealogy, not just to discover their families but to learn what’s out there, original sources that would help them get the complete picture. I can remember in high school our textbook had about an inaccurate paragraph on the suffragists and I remember one passage that said women were given the vote. That is not true, women fought to get the vote.

Williams: My high school textbook said that too.

Perkins: It’s important to give students the tools to do their own research and do meaningful research to get to the bottom of things. 

Williams: Thank you so much for your time.